Talk:Function (music)

Difficult to read

Hyacinth, you know I'm one of your biggest fans, but I find this article to be extremely difficult to read. I think it needs quite a bit more explanation, and examples that are spelled out step-by-step. I'd jump in myself and do it, but I'm afraid I don't know enough about the subject. Perhaps, if you are willing, I could just pose questions to get you to make changes to improve the article. To start: Perhaps you can fix the following paragraph. I can't make heads or tails of it. --Samuel Wantman 06:01, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Thus a pitch may or may not fulfill one or more functions. Functional tonality refers to tonality which uses diatonic functions, non-functional tonality being when the diatonic elements are present (for instance the major scale) but do not use or fulfill their possible function as in, for instance, pandiatonicism.

Here is what I think that meant:

Thus a pitch may or may not fulfill one or more functions since it may be a part of many chords. For example a G natural may be the root of, say, a G major chord, the fifth of, say, a C major chord, or the third of, say, an e minor chord. To say that a piece or composer uses "functional tonality" is to say that they use pitches and chords according to and in their "proper" function or functions. "Non-functional" tonality is thus when normally functionally tonal diatonic elements, such as the pitches of the major scale, are present, but are used without regards to their "function", as in, for instance, pandiatonicism.

Hyacinth 06:44, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This is a big improvement, but the words that you have in quotes are road-blocks to understanding. I wonder if you put them in quotes because their meaning is stretched or un-clear. "Functional" and "Non-functional" seem to mean traditional and conventional or non-traditional and un-conventional. Pandiatonicism has a function. Perhaps if you elaborate on and define what makes something "proper" or "normally functionionally tonal diatonic elements". I understand more from reading about Harmonic Function, but I think the basic problem is that your writing about "Diatonic functionality" assumes some knowledge of "Harmonic Function". I think it is possible to explain "Diatonic functionality" in even simpler terms. I sometimes try to imagine that I am writing for an intelligent 12 year old who knows nothing about the subject. --Samuel Wantman 20:24, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

As far as I know: Diatonic function = harmonic function.

You seem to have understood the quotation marks very well. One problem is that the term is usually not explicitly defined, and as with a lot of musical terms, appears to be defined by what it is said not to be, or what it is said to describe, in any given discussion. For instance, as in the article, function is said to be the names given to pitches to describe their functions (and not in a figurative manner). The circularity is found outside of this article. The article dominant describes: dominant note (second most important) of a key is that which is a perfect fifth above the tonic." Thus, in this usage, neither "dominant" and "perfect fifth above the tonic" describe or explain each other, they are just different words for the same name.

One explination of function: "Regardless of what system is chosen to model tonal function, solmization training cannot be undertaken halfheartedly. Developing listerners must cast the syllables across the diatonic collection with constant repetition and learn to associate specific syllables with specific scale degress--particularly the tonic during early stages--so that a kind of brainwashing in musical functionality takes hold." Karpinski, Gary S. (2000). Aural Skills Acquisition: The Development of Listening, Reading, and Performing Skills in College-Level Musicians, p.87. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195117859.

If the quote directly above is accurate, "function" is an intuitive knowledge of what the scale degrees (I, IV, etc) and functions (tonic, subdominant, etc) are supposed mean.

Food for thought. Hyacinth 21:08, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

From Tristan chord:

• "Wagner actually provoked the sound or structure of musical harmony to become more predominant than its function, a notion which was soon after to be explored by Debussy and others."

Here's an attempt:

The function of the dominant, for example, is to preceed the tonic, providing, for instance the strongest (most final) and thus final (last) cadence. If this is done in a piece that piece uses functional harmony in that respect. If, however, a piece where to preceed the tonic with a chord other than the dominant in the last cadence it would be nonfunctional.

Hyacinth 07:35, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

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what follows below is from Chord (music):

Harmonic Function

Tonal music relies upon a key to indicate the natural relationships between the major and minor chords that result from the natural diatonic relationships. For instance, in any major key, the quality of a chord built on the fifth note of the scale will be major. This is because of the constant relationship between the tonal intervals of major scale.

Chords are also said to have a function in their diatonic scale, which relates to the expected resolution of each chord within a key. The strongest form of motion has root movement by fifth, which is the characteristic sound used as finality in most music of the baroque and classical periods (common practice period), and is also exploited to modulate a piece of music into a different key. The chord function for a major scale is as follows:

• The I, III and VI chord are said to have a Tonic Function, due to the fact that they have a stable sound and do not have a tendency to resolve. When a chord progression resolves to a III or VI chord, it is called a Tonic Substitution, because the stable III or VI chord is being used as a substitute for the expected I chord.

• The VII and the V chord are said to have a Dominant Function, and they have a strong tendency to resolve to other chords. The five down a perfect fifth to the I chord and the VII chord up a minor second to the I chord, due to the expected resolution of the tritone, or the highly unstable diminished fifth which is present in a diatonic VII chord.

• The II and IV chords have Subdominant Function, partially due to the fact that they are a fifth away from the Dominant chords of a key, and partially because in their own Tonic keys, their respective Dominant chords are built on the root notes of the stable Tonic function I and VI. They are also referred to as Dominant Preparation chords, and are used to approach a Dominant function chord. The progression IV-V-I, (subdominant, dominant, tonic) is by far the most common chord progression in all of music, and can be found in an astonishingly wide variety of styles, forms, and genres.

The spellings of the diatonic triads of the C major scale are given in the following table, along with their quality, name, and function"

I       -- C E G -- major -- C major -- tonic
ii      -- D F A -- minor -- D minor -- subdominant
iii     -- E G B -- minor -- E minor -- tonic
IV      -- F A C -- major -- F major -- subdominant
V       -- G B D -- major -- G major -- dominant
vi      -- A C E -- minor -- A minor -- tonic
vii°    -- B D F -- dim.  -- B dim   -- dominant 

There is another type of chord function, Subdominant Minor, which is reserved for non-diatonic chords, or chords that do not occur naturally in the diatonic key, and will be dealt with separately under the heading Modal Interchange.

end paste

Vincent D'Indy

Is there an English translation of the 1903 work of D'Indy here referenced, or is this the French? - User:Lself 23:36, 2 August 2006

Merge

Further information: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music theory § Merging many musical harmony articles

German Chord Functions Nearly Unreadable

I understand functional harmony but am still struggling with the chord function table. Instead of cryptic 2-letter symbols, why not just use English words in the table, e.g. dominant parallel? Put the German abbreviations in paragraph text.

I fail to see the problem with this table – unless you cannot read and you only look at the images. The German abbreviations are explained two paragraphs before the table (in the paragraph beginning "In Diether de la Motte's version of the theory"). If there is a problem with these explanations, then that is what must be corrected. The table then shows the meaning of the abbreviations. You suggest to use English words such as "dominant parallel"; but what does this mean? The German parallel means "relative", and the English "parallel" means "of the opposite mode". What do you suggest?

In addition, there is another table in the section "Comparison of the terminologies" that tries to explain all that. It does not use "parallel" in English, because that is not the name of a function. This table, as indicated, is valid only for the major mode. In minor, the German parallel and gegenparallel would be inversed. The submediant in minor, for instance, would be Tonikagegenparallel (tG) instead of Tonikaparallel (Tp). Perhaps another table should be given for the minor mode.

There is no point in pretending that something complex is simple. Our aim can only be to make it understandable. I trust that if you read the text (and possibly reread it), you could understand it. — Hucbald.SaintAmand (talk) 06:38, 5 August 2021 (UTC)